Legislature(2003 - 2004)
03/10/2004 01:39 PM Senate CRA
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
March 10, 2004
1:39 p.m.
TAPE (S) 04-7
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Bert Stedman, Chair
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 335
"An Act relating to enhanced 911 surcharges and to emergency
services dispatch systems of municipalities, certain villages,
and public corporations established by municipalities."
HEARD AND HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 355
"An Act relating to the protection of land and water from waste
disposal; providing for the regulation of waste management;
making conforming amendments; and providing for an effective
date."
MOVED SB 355 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 335
SHORT TITLE: EMERGENCY SERVICES DISPATCH/911 SURCHARGE
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) SEEKINS
02/16/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/16/04 (S) CRA, FIN
03/10/04 (S) CRA AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
BILL: SB 355
SHORT TITLE: WASTE MANAGEMENT/DISPOSAL
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/27/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/27/04 (S) CRA, RES
03/10/04 (S) CRA AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
WITNESS REGISTER
Joe Michel
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced SB 335 for sponsor
Patrick Cole
Representing the Mayor of Fairbanks
800 Cushman Street
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335
Eric Mohrmann
Interior Fire Chiefs Association
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335
Paul Harris
Fairbanks Police Department Representative
800 Cushman Street
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335
Commissioner Ernesta Ballard
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced SB 355
Marilyn Crockett
Alaska Oil & Gas Representative
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 355
Steve Borell
Alaska Miners Association
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 355
Rich Heig
Council of Alaska Producers
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 355
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-7, SIDE A
CHAIR BERT STEDMAN called the Senate Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:39 p.m. Present
were Senators Gary Stevens, Elton and Chair Stedman. Before
turning to the bill calendar, he introduced three students and
two young adults who were visiting from Sitka.
SB 335-EMERGENCY SERVICES DISPATCH/911 SURCHARGE
CHAIR BERT STEDMAN announced SB 335 to be up for consideration.
He asked Senator Seekins to proceed.
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS, sponsor, asked his staff member to
present the bill.
JOE MICHEL, legislative aide to Senator Seekins, explained that
the bill relates to enhanced 911 surcharges. Enhanced 911, or E-
911, shows the physical location and name of a caller to
emergency service dispatchers. The purpose of SB 335 is to give
municipalities more freedom to recover some of the costs of
providing E-911 service to their community.
Currently there is a statutory ceiling on the amount a
municipality may collect to pay for E-911 services. That amount
isn't enough to pay the overhead so municipalities have to
recover those costs from the people through increased taxes of
some sort. SB 335 amends the statute by raising the surcharge
ceiling and by instituting a surcharge for the operation of the
E-911 service.
The final change this bill makes occurs on page 3, lines 18-20.
It says, "The municipality may only use the emergency services
dispatch surcharge for the actual labor and equipment used to
provide emergency services dispatch." That addition is to ensure
that municipalities recover no more that their operation costs.
Also, an annual review of the actual costs is required.
SENATOR GARY STEVENS noted that municipalities with fewer than
100,000 people could charge up to $2.15 for E-911 services and
asked for verification that they wouldn't recover more than the
actual costs up to that limit.
MR. MICHEL agreed and reiterated that the goal is to transfer
the cost burden from the taxpayers.
CHAIR STEDMAN told of an experience he had recently, in which he
was asked to return a missed call to someone in a nearby
community. When he made the call, he discovered that the cell
number was from the state of Washington. He asked if that caller
would be paying the proposed fees or would they be able to avoid
them.
MR. MICHEL replied they would avoid the fees. He explained that
his cell phone service comes from Fairbanks and if that
municipality instituted a fee he would pay that fee regardless
of the fact that he was using his phone in Juneau. Furthermore,
the difference between phases I and II, E-911 service is that
911 calls from cell phones in Alaska can't currently be
triangulated. Unlike a landline, emergency cell phone calls in
Alaska don't register a physical location.
SENATOR KIM ELTON noted that this is a per line charge rather
than a per household charge and asked whether the sponsor might
consider the latter rather than the former. He reasoned that a
number of households have separate computer and fax lines that
wouldn't be used to make emergency calls. "How did you get to
the point where you do it per line rather than per household,"
he asked.
MR. MICHEL responded by saying that the Fairbanks mayor asked
the sponsor to introduce the bill, which is a companion to HB
461. As written, the charge would be per line, but the sponsor
is open to the change. "The idea was presented that you could
provide evidence that you have a fax line and then you'll be
able to take that surcharge off your phone line. So it would be
by household. It would be the responsibility of the resident to
turn that in to the phone company. Those ideas have been brought
forward by different representatives."
SENATOR GARY STEVENS remarked that this bill attempts to recover
some of the costs, but there are inequities to consider.
Referring to his community, he said the City of Kodiak provides
E-911 service to the city and a much larger portion of Kodiak
Island that is outside the city.
MR. MICHEL said this bill is trying to address that. Using
Fairbanks as an example, he said that this would transfer the
burden from those paying property tax to those with phones who
therefore have the capability of dialing 911.
SENATOR GARY STEVENS asked if 911 service extends outside the
city or borough of Fairbanks.
MR. MICHEL deferred to Mr. Harris, director of police.
SENATOR ELTON assumed that there is no distinction made between
a business phone and a residential phone.
MR. MICHEL agreed there is no distinction. "If you can dial 911
from it, the surcharges apply."
SENATOR ELTON wanted to make sure he understood correctly that
the surcharge would apply to all lines, but the sponsor would
consider change to exclude lines that weren't used for voice
calls.
MR. MICHEL said the sponsor would consider change in that area,
but currently the surcharge would apply to fax and modem lines.
CHAIR STEDMAN opened public testimony.
PATRICK COLE, representative for the Fairbanks mayor, testified
via teleconference to express support for the bill. Fairbanks
has been working with both the borough and the City of North
Pole in an effort to find ways to control and or recover the
cost of dispatch centers.
Referencing an earlier question about service areas, he
explained that under current law a dispatch center could serve
an area that stretches beyond its own boundaries. Specifically,
Kodiak may serve beyond the city boundaries, which would allow
them to recover some cost of providing service to the
surrounding area.
For at least the last ten years the law has provided for a per
line charge. They have discussed the possibility of not charging
for more than one line, but "this bill, as written, solves our
short term problem," he said. It would enable the municipality
to broaden service and take the burden off taxpayers and place
it on users.
SENATOR ELTON asked, "If the bill is amended to allow customers
to check off and not pay for modem or fax lines, would that make
us need to revisit the 85 cents per month surcharge? I mean
would you need to go up to 87 cents?"
MR. COLE said he didn't know, but he did know that the number of
landlines have declined in the last few years in Fairbanks. "I
don't think that allowing a per household [charge] would hurt
things terribly, but we really don't know."
SENATOR GARY STEVENS asked if the City of Fairbanks subsidizes
their 911 services and if so, how much does it every year.
MR. COLE said they spend about $1 million a year to run their
center. "That includes all our dispatch services. Right now the
current surcharge only pays for the software and the equipment."
ERIC MOHRMANN testified via teleconference from Fairbanks to
represent the Interior Fire Chiefs Association in support of the
bill. His department is one of nine within the borough and this
bill would help address their high and escalating costs.
PAUL HARRIS, Fairbanks Police Department director, spoke in
support of the bill.
Fairbanks Police Department currently runs a dispatch
center and provides services to the Fairbanks Police
Department, fire department, and emergency medical
services. We've just signed a contract with North Pole
and we will be providing those same services to North
Pole and we're working on contracts with Delta, Delta
Rescue, and Deltana to provide services out there
along with the Salcha Rescue.
We support this bill.... We think it will help us a
lot in covering the cost of the dispatch center. It
will provide funding for the dispatch center as we go
together. And even if we don't end up in a regional
dispatch center, we would end up in that place like we
are now with five different dispatch centers. Each one
of those dispatch centers would receive funding for
their operation from this bill.
The 911 surcharge is certainly not a new concept. AS
29.35.131 already provides for a surcharge of up to 75
cents on every telephone line and cell phones if
enhanced 911 services are offered. In the [Fairbanks]
North Star Borough, we haven't charged against the
cell phones.
If you're in Fairbanks and you dial 911 on your cell
phone, it doesn't make any difference whether you're
inside the city limits or outside in the borough
someplace. It all rings into the Fairbanks Police
Department dispatch center. So every cell phone 911
[call] that is made rings in. We have an operator that
picks it up and answers it, finds out where the
problem is and sends it to the right agency.
There was a comment made about what if somebody has a
cell phone in Fairbanks and is in Juneau and dials
911. What actually happens is that 911 call is
answered at the Juneau 911 center and they would know
that it is in the area. They would not know exactly
where that phone was located. That's the same thing we
deal with in Fairbanks. The 911 rings into us from
Delta all the way down to past Nenana.
The surcharged provided in the current law is barely
enough just to cover the equipment costs for
maintenance and replacement. The proposed amendment
provides money necessary for equipment upgrades and
replacement up to 85 cents and additional monies to
pay for the actual operation of emergency dispatch
center up to $2.15.
I don't believe that in the North Star Borough that we
would ever charge the maximum amount that's allowed
under this proposed amendment. It's possible some
other jurisdictions might do that, but as previously
stated, there's language in the bill that causes each
municipality to go back and look at it every year so
that ... the surcharge then can then be adjusted up or
down to cover the actual costs of the dispatch center.
The current surcharge that we have does not pay for
the cost of a well-trained dispatcher 24/7 to answer
the call. Right now the money that is collected on the
surcharge simply pays for you to pick up the
telephone, dial 911, it to ring into a dispatch
center. That's all that's paid for at this point.
There's nothing provided to pay for somebody to
actually lean down and pick up the headset and say,
"Hello this is the Fairbanks Dispatch Center." That
cost is all covered by the local governments.
I think it's also important to recognize that there's
nothing in this proposed legislation that requires a
municipality to charge the maximum amount. That
question has come up several times and it needs to be
made clear that the amount that's put into this is the
maximum amount that can be charged, but it's not a
requirement that anybody charge that amount.
We feel that now, especially with municipalities
having difficult times financially, this amendment
allows the opportunity to pay for critical services
without going back to the property owners and laying
it on the taxpayers. We support this amendment and we
encourage you to support it.
SENATOR ELTON thanked Mr. Harris for extending him the courtesy
of meeting with him prior to the hearing and apologized for
neglecting to ask about the following: Consider a small business
owner with a couple of employees. When you consider that they
might have a fax line, a modem line, employee lines and a cell
phone at work and nearly as many lines at home. I can see the
monthly surcharge for this one small businessperson amounting to
$8.50 if they have 10 different lines. In comparison, he said,
someone else pays for my work phone and at home I pay for one
landline and my cell phone. "And so my bill is $1.60. I'm one
person and that is one person and yet they're supporting this
enhanced 911 service and the dispatch call service at a rate 3
to 4 times what I'm paying. And how do you get around that?"
MR. HARRIS replied you have to justify it by saying that any
time there is a phone line with voice call capability it's
available for a 911 call 24/7 and you're paying for that
service. He runs a dispatch center and can easily justify that
in his own mind because he knows the kinds and numbers of calls
that come in. He understood the concern, but he asked for
recognition of the fact that most fax phones have a handset and
are therefore available for voice communication. If the bill is
amended to exempt phones that aren't meant for voice
communication, he didn't know that they would be greatly
impacted. The reason he can say that is because of the increased
cell phone usage. "Cell phones are getting to be used so much
that that's what we need to charge it to."
SENATOR ELTON said you're looking at that from a logical
perspective and "the thing is, we sometimes think too much in
this building and there are several logical perspectives." One
such perspective is that the person who pays a surcharge on 10
lines and the one who pays a surcharge on two lines are equally
likely to call 911. From that perspective, one person's access
is worth more per month than another's, particularly when it's
more and more likely that both individuals would use their cell
phone to place a 911 call.
MR. HARRIS reasoned that the cost of the equipment for those
phones to have access doesn't go down if there are two less
phones, which is justification for spreading the cost over every
phone.
CHAIR STEDMAN asked whether there were any other questions or
comments and if not he was ready for a motion.
SENATOR ELTON remarked that a lot of the issues the committee
raised could be addressed at the local level where decisions
could be made regarding how to assess the charge and which
phones would be exempt. Although that has a certain attraction,
he asked whether the committee should consider an amendment to
exempt certain kinds of lines. The sponsor's staff indicated
that they are open to the change. The change wouldn't be
dramatic and the phone owner would still have to apply for the
exemption.
"I don't know what the rest of the committee feels about an
amendment like that, but I think in Finance they'll probably
just be looking at the numbers. They're not going to be looking
at the policy in general so I'd like to hear from other members
of the committee about it."
SENATOR GARY STEVENS agreed that the committee should consider
such an amendment and there was time to do so in the CRA
Committee.
CHAIR STEDMAN commented that in his previous life he dealt with
bringing phone systems into the Municipality of Sitka and the
issue of surcharges for multiple lines came up. They decided not
to exclude any phones so the cost was spread over all phones. At
that time it was an inconsequential expense, but that isn't the
case here.
With that, he announced he would hold SB 335 until the next
meeting to allow time for an amendment.
SENATOR ELTON suggested that the sponsor has already spent time
considering this change and perhaps he would consider working
with the Chair's office to draft an amendment.
SB 355-WASTE MANAGEMENT/DISPOSAL
CHAIR BERT STEDMAN announced SB 355 to be up for consideration
and asked Commissioner Ballard to come forward.
COMMISSIONER ERNESTA BALLARD, Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC), explained that the bill doesn't change the
department's authority; it simply provides new regulatory tools
and improves some definitions.
In Administrative Order 202 issued in December 2002, the
governor asked the department to review their statutory
authorities and current regulatory programs to determine whether
improvements could save money and time while achieving the same
regulatory effect. SB 355 is the result and is an effort to
better protect land and water from waste disposal. The changes
have no fiscal impact on DEC.
The bill is risk based and allows DEC to use different tools for
different risks "so we are saving the most professional and
site-specific staff time for the most impacting activities." For
less risky activities, she assured the committee that DEC
continues to provide protection.
She said, "I'm proud to point out that the governor has as
aggressive a program for environmental protection as he does for
resource development and, in fact, he expects excellence in
both." DEC's role is clearly defined and they provide most of
the environmental protection for the state and they also fulfill
the state's obligation under the federal clean air and water
acts.
The first change the bill makes is to replace the word "permit"
with "prior authorization." Currently DEC has statutory
authorization to issue permits to control pollution and this
broadens the concept and will allow the use of tools more suited
to the different risks that DEC confronts.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD noted that the different tool options are
identified on the blue handout. The tools include: individual
permits, general permits, permits by rule, plan approvals, and
integrated permits.
Individual permits are issued for large higher risk projects and
are site specific. They include activities such as large seafood
processors, municipal wastewater discharges, refinery
discharges, ballast water treatment discharges, large landfills,
oil and gas drilling waste disposal and asbestos monofills.
General permits are used for lower risk activities and for a
number of similar activities in a geographic area. Examples of
such activities include: placer mines, log transfer facilities,
storm water discharge, remote camp sewage and solid waste
disposal, oil and gas exploration and development and small
seafood processors.
Permits by rule are used to authorize low risk activity that has
the potential for real impact. They require DEC to establish
rules to tell the public the kinds of best management practices
they believe are appropriate. This tool also provides
enforcement authority without requiring an individual
relationship with the entity engaged in the activity. Examples
of the activities include: rural landfills, residential domestic
wastewater systems that discharge to marine waters, coal bed
methane exploration, non-jurisdictional wetland fill,
construction dewatering, oil and water separators, small animal
confinement operations, construction debris landfills, and wood
waste monofills.
Plan approvals are a prior authorization mechanism for a low
risk activity. Examples of this type activity include zero-
discharge sewage treatment lagoons, zero-discharge temporary
storage of oil and gas drilling waste, and zero-discharge
temporary storage for some coal bed methane projects.
Integrated waste management permits are for complex facilities
and operations that need more than one DEC waste disposal
authorization. Mining companies are enthusiastic about these
permits. Those likely to use integrated waste management permits
include: complex mining operations and major oil and gas
development and production projects.
The bill expands DEC's authority to require proof that there
will be the financial resources available to clean up a waste
pile at the end of the life of a project. Finally, the bill
calls for definition changes that are important to DEC. Of
particular importance is the clarification of the difference
between municipal solid waste and other solid waste. "We have
hundreds, literally, of small land fills in rural Alaska that we
would like to differentiate from other waste generators so that
we could use the new permit by rule powers that we would get
through this bill to give them clear guidance about what is
required in siting and management of their waste facility."
2:25 pm
CHAIR STEDMAN asked for the record to show that Senator Lincoln
joined the meeting. He then asked Commissioner Ballard to expand
on the fees and associated costs.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD replied there is no fiscal note. The fees
that are currently in place will still pertain and although she
isn't projecting any savings, she is hoping the bill will make
the department more efficient.
SENATOR GARY STEVENS thanked her for stopping by his office then
noted that there is a lot more direct marketing by fishermen who
sell fresh or headed and gutted product. He questioned whether
such activity would fall under a general permit.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD said that would require a food-processing
permit. Furthermore, she said, "As you know, we have been
working hard with that industry to try and offer the same risk-
based spectrum of permitting opportunities for people processing
seafood so that the individual single boat processor can get a
permit and have the protection he needs to sell his fish."
SENATOR KIM ELTON referred to the blue sheet and asked what is
involved in moving from a general permit to an individual permit
or from a permit by rule to a general permit. For example you
might start with one application for a residential domestic
waste water system that discharges into marine waters, but
within five years there might be 30 residences, which could have
a large impact on the adjacent marine waters.
SIDE B
2:30 pm
Another example would be one small fish processor operating in a
certain area that is eventually joined by a number of small
processors all of which may have a larger impact than a single
large processor. "Is there movement between the categories and
how do you handle that," he asked.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD replied there is movement. She explained
that a permit is specific to what comes out the end of the pipe
so the permitting regime focuses on the source, the effluent,
and the receiving water. And because there are no automatic
renewals, DEC reconsiders the circumstances associated with the
activity every five years. If the capacity of the receiving
water is strained by the discharge then there would be an
allocation on a maximum load basis, but you try not to get to
that point. As designed, the individual permit tool is used to
keep from stressing the receiving water beyond the accommodation
point.
SENATOR ELTON noted that Section 5 changes the public
notification requirements. The previous requirement calls for
two notices to be published in a newspaper of general
circulation and the proposed change is to publish one notice in
a local newspaper with general circulation. Referring to the
coal bed methane leases that were let in Homer, he pointed out
that the public notice was made in the Kenai newspaper. Although
the notice fit the definition and letter of the law, the local
residents felt aggrieved because the notice wasn't placed in the
local Homer paper. He remarked that the language didn't seem as
though it would avoid a similar sort of problem. "We have to
trust the judgment of somebody who may or may not understand the
local dynamics when they're placing the local advertisement," he
said.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD said there are several answers to that
question. First DEC would like to see more members of the public
who are interested in government activities use the Internet.
DEC already has the capability to electronically notify large
groups of people and they are trying to increase that means of
communication and notification.
As part of AO 202 DEC is trying to assure that they do not
impose additional administrative procedures requirements on
themselves. However, "When we are involved in a difficult
communication, we generally tend to over communicate not under
communicate." Generally they use the Anchorage paper because it
is the one in general circulation and people are often
interested in DEC issues regardless of where they live in the
state.
Continuing she said, "Let us get back to you on exactly why that
language appears there. I believe it is in response to a general
request of the governor's that we have a consistent approach
across government that at least sets what the floor for
communication will be." But she could assure him that DEC looks
at the subject of a communication before they decide on a
communication plan.
Stressing the importance of using the Internet, she said the DEC
web page had been reworded and the broken links fixed. "People
can go to our web page, they can click on regulation, they can
get pending regulation, it is simple, you can do it anywhere.
You can do it from a cabin with a satellite, you can do it with
a modem, you can do it anywhere in the state and I feel more
comfortable knowing that you don't have to be able to go to a
public meeting or to read a newspaper in order to know what is
going on at DEC. We're able to reach a much broader audience
electronically than we could ever have dreamed of reaching with
a single or two box ads in a newspaper."
SENATOR ELTON said he appreciates the answer and although he's a
policy kind of person, he's unlikely to bookmark a regulatory
page and generally, he didn't believe that homeowners would
either. He was pleased to hear her say that these were minimum
standards but minimum standards were met in Homer and that's
become a complex and potentially expensive problem for the
state. He said he looks forward to further dialog on ways to use
common sense to get beyond the minimum.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD responded by telling him that summary fact
sheets are on the DEC web page if you don't want to read the
regulations. "In this state the challenge of reaching every
community is horrendous and I'm very ambitious about electronic
communication," she stated conclusively.
SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN asked how landfills would be
monitored out in Bush Alaska.
COMMISSIONER BALLARD replied that isn't the exact subject of the
bill, but they have worked hard to provide rural communities
with tools they can afford and will use to site and manage their
landfills in the safest way. For that program their goal is to
issue permits by rule, which would be a set of best practices
guidelines and a risk calculator. The latter is a worksheet for
siting and management. DEC's activity will be to promulgate the
rules and do field inspections. The current regime requires a
permit application, which is an individual specific permit under
DEC's solid waste program.
There were no further questions asked of Commissioner Ballard.
MARILYN CROCKETT, deputy director of the Alaska Oil and Gas
Association testified via teleconference in support of SB 355.
"This legislation is an excellent example of DEC continuing to
pursue opportunities to streamline its processes while at the
same time ensuring that its assigned responsibility of
protecting Alaska's environment is carried out."
This bill also gives DEC the authority to administratively
extend permits that are due to expire. This is important because
it gives the department additional time it may need to go
through the renewal process. It gives the department the
flexibility to prioritize its limited permitting resources.
STEVE BORELL, executive director of the Alaska Miners
Association testified via teleconference in support of SB 355.
They are particularly pleased with the new authority for DEC to
administratively extend permits to deal with the occasional
times that it isn't possible for DEC to process a permit renewal
prior to the expiration of a permit.
RICH HEIG, president of the Counsel of Alaska Procedures and
general manager of Greens Creek Mining Company spoke via
teleconference in support of SB 355. They appreciate DEC's
approach to streamline the permitting process. They concur with
the benefits set forth by the commissioner and others who
testified.
There were no further questions or comments.
SENATOR GARY STEVENS made a motion to move SB 355 from committee
with the zero fiscal note and individual recommendations. There
being no objection, it was so ordered.
CHAIR STEDMAN adjourned the meeting at 2:45 pm.
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